OT: New Restaurant in Phoenix

[Jim Thompson]

Very Nice New Middle East Restaurant in Phoenix (Ahwatukee, SE Corner
of Warner and 48th)...

http://www.layali.us/index.html

Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

...Jim Thompson

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:47:16 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson

Post by Jim Thompson
Very Nice New Middle East Restaurant in Phoenix (Ahwatukee, SE Corner
of Warner and 48th)...
http://www.layali.us/index.html
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)
...Jim Thompson

Did you give any of their hookahs a try?

We're going to be down for a few days in Dec, probably give it a try.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:45:32 -0400, Spehro Pefhany

Post by Spehro Pefhany
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:47:16 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson

Post by Jim Thompson
Very Nice New Middle East Restaurant in Phoenix (Ahwatukee, SE Corner
of Warner and 48th)...
http://www.layali.us/index.html
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)
...Jim Thompson

Did you give any of their hookahs a try?

No, not yet, but I will ;-)

Post by Spehro Pefhany
We're going to be down for a few days in Dec, probably give it a try.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

With spouse? Do stop by.

...Jim Thompson

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by Jim Thompson
Very Nice New Middle East Restaurant in Phoenix (Ahwatukee, SE Corner
of Warner and 48th)...
http://www.layali.us/index.html
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Are you saying that you should avoid their "chips"? ;-)

[John Woodgate]

In message <***@4ax.com>, dated Sun, 10
Sep 2006, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-***@My-Web-Site.com>
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:51:56 +0100, John Woodgate

Post by John Woodgate
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

I figured someone would respond like that...

There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

I have an Iranian friend, Salar, who tells people his name is Sal ;-)

...Jim Thompson

[Homer J Simpson]

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

"Whoever lays his hand on me to govern me," Proudhon proclaimed, "is a
usurper and a tyrant; I declare him to be my enemy . . . . Government of man
by man is slavery" and its laws are "cobwebs for the rich and chains of
steel for the poor." The "highest perfection" for free society is no
government, to which Proudhon was the first to give the name "An-archy." He
excoriated government in a passion of contempt. "To be governed is to be
watched, inspected, spied on, regulated, indoctrinated, preached at,
controlled, ruled, censored, by persons who have neither wisdom nor virtue.
It is in every action and transaction to be registered, stamped, taxed,
patented, licensed, assessed, measured, reprimanded, corrected, frustrated.
Under pretext of the public good it is to be exploited, monopolized,
embezzled, robbed and then, at the least protest or word of complaint, to be
fined, harassed, vilified, beaten up, bludgeoned, dis­armed, judged,
condemned, imprisoned, shot, garroted, deported, sold, betrayed, swindled,
deceived, outraged, dishonored. That's government, that's its justice, that's
its morality! And imagine that among us there are democrats who believe
government to be good, socialists who in the name of liberty, equality and
fraternity support this ig­nominy, proletarians who offer themselves
candidates for President of the Republic! What hypocrisy!"

[Joerg]

Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson

Post by John Woodgate
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

I figured someone would respond like that...
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Except that it's not that religion is oppressive but that it is people
in leadership positions who mis-interpret and become false teachers. Or
even dangerous teachers. So there are some bad people, but only very few.

Post by Jim Thompson
I have an Iranian friend, Salar, who tells people his name is Sal ;-)

Hmm. Majeed still calls himself Majeed and doesn't run into problems
with that AFAIK. Unless someone really wants to I only see one reason
why to alter the name a bit: If it's unpronouncable in the country you
live in, like with my name (I am mostly called George).

[Richard Crowley]

"Joerg" wrote ...

Post by Joerg
Except that it's not that religion is oppressive but that it is people
in leadership positions who mis-interpret and become false teachers.
Or even dangerous teachers. So there are some bad people, but only
very few.

Bravo. Cut through both the leftist and rightist
myths to the truth.

[Homer J Simpson]

Except that it's not that religion is oppressive but that it is people in
leadership positions who mis-interpret and become false teachers. Or even
dangerous teachers. So there are some bad people, but only very few.

All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

[Richard Crowley]

"Homer J Simpson" wrote ...

Post by Homer J Simpson
All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

And ironically, it is mostly people who believe in various
religions who fought (and died) to preserve your right to
athiesm. Have a nice day.

[Eeyore]

Post by Richard Crowley
"Homer J Simpson" wrote ...

Post by Homer J Simpson
All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

And ironically, it is mostly people who believe in various
religions who fought (and died) to preserve your right to
athiesm.

Could you elaborate on that ?

Graham

[John Woodgate]

Post by Eeyore

Post by Richard Crowley
"Homer J Simpson" wrote ...

Post by Homer J Simpson
All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

And ironically, it is mostly people who believe in various
religions who fought (and died) to preserve your right to
athiesm.

Could you elaborate on that ?

It's a self-fulfilling concept. People with political power established
freedom of thought, including freedom of religion. But many of them
began to do that at a time when they couldn't get political power
without overtly supporting whatever was the dominant religion in the
country at the time. See the careers of politicians in the reigns of
Henry VIII, Mary I, Elizabeth I, and then the 'Vicar of Bray', who
switched from Protestant to RC, Tory to Whig and back in the reigns of
Charles II, James II, William IV and Mary II, Anne and George I.

'And this is the law, that I'll maintain
Until my dying day, sir.
That whatsoever King doth reign,
Still I'll be the Vicar of Bray, sir!'

It's still true today. Witness the interest in whether Tony Blair will
become a Roman Catholic and the furore over GWB's religious views. Local
councils in England and Wales are expected to appoint a 'Chaplain to the
Chairman'. The House of Commons also has a chaplain, who is said to look
around at the MPs and then pray for the country!

I wonder if a prominent and overt atheist could even now get high
political office in UK or USA.

[Homer J Simpson]

Post by John Woodgate
I wonder if a prominent and overt atheist could even now get high
political office in UK or USA.

ISTR that Karl Rove is an atheist.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate
I wonder if a prominent and overt atheist could even now get high
political office in UK or USA.

ISTR that Karl Rove is an atheist.

If so, GWB is a hypocrite; he should have denounced Rove to the
bishopric and sent him to the bonfire.

While this URL is doubtless not wholly impartial:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0529,ridgeway,66005,6.html

it does suggest that Rove is a cloacal temple.

Another context of the word 'rove' is the name of a beetle. Figures.

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:29:56 +0100, John Woodgate

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate
I wonder if a prominent and overt atheist could even now get high
political office in UK or USA.

ISTR that Karl Rove is an atheist.

If so, GWB is a hypocrite; he should have denounced Rove to the
bishopric and sent him to the bonfire.

All politicians are hypocrites...

Scumbag RINO Senator McCain is appearing in TV ads here in Arizona
supporting Len Munsil for Governor.

Len Munsil is a lunatic-level religious right wing fruitcake.

Post by John Woodgate
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0529,ridgeway,66005,6.html
it does suggest that Rove is a cloacal temple.
Another context of the word 'rove' is the name of a beetle. Figures.

I like Rove ;-)

...Jim Thompson

[John Woodgate]

In message <***@4ax.com>, dated Mon, 11
Sep 2006, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-***@My-Web-Site.com>
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Scumbag RINO

RINO?? Who he?

Post by Jim Thompson
Senator McCain is appearing in TV ads here in Arizona supporting Len
Munsil for Governor.
Len Munsil is a lunatic-level religious right wing fruitcake.

Literally 'fruitcake'? I thought the RRW didn't like them sort? (;-)

[JeffM]

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
Scumbag RINO Senator McCain

.

Post by John Woodgate
RINO?? Who he?

Republican In Name Only
Y'know--the kind who oppose NeoCons
and think that *Borrow and Spend* is a BAD idea.

I've been chuckling at your posts
but haven't had anything of significance to add to any.
It's good to see you back.

[Jim Thompson]

Post by JeffM

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
Scumbag RINO Senator McCain

.

Post by John Woodgate
RINO?? Who he?

Republican In Name Only
Y'know--the kind who oppose NeoCons
and think that *Borrow and Spend* is a BAD idea.

McCain will say anything that causes you to vote for him.

...Jim Thompson

[John Woodgate]

Post by JeffM

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
Scumbag RINO Senator McCain

.

Post by John Woodgate
RINO?? Who he?

Republican In Name Only
Y'know--the kind who oppose NeoCons
and think that *Borrow and Spend* is a BAD idea.
I've been chuckling at your posts
but haven't had anything of significance to add to any.
It's good to see you back.

Thank you.

[Homer J Simpson]

Post by Richard Crowley
"Homer J Simpson" wrote ...

Post by Homer J Simpson
All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

And ironically, it is mostly people who believe in various
religions who fought (and died) to preserve your right to
athiesm. Have a nice day.

No more true than for the general population. It is not true that there are
no atheists in foxholes.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by Richard Crowley
"Homer J Simpson" wrote ...

Post by Homer J Simpson
All teachers of religion are false teachers by definition.

And ironically, it is mostly people who believe in various
religions who fought (and died) to preserve your right to
athiesm. Have a nice day.

No more true than for the general population. It is not true that there are
no atheists in foxholes.

True, but they are less than proportionally represented, being more
intelligent and free-thinking, thus not being preferred as
cannon-fodder.

[Homer J Simpson]

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Homer J Simpson
No more true than for the general population. It is not true that there are
no atheists in foxholes.

True, but they are less than proportionally represented, being more
intelligent and free-thinking, thus not being preferred as cannon-fodder.

It's true that they are less inclined to kill for Jesus.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Homer J Simpson
No more true than for the general population. It is not true that there are
no atheists in foxholes.

True, but they are less than proportionally represented, being more
intelligent and free-thinking, thus not being preferred as cannon-fodder.

It's true that they are less inclined to kill for Jesus.

I don't think there are many combatants who are. Quite a few eager to
kill for other deities, though.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Homer J Simpson
No more true than for the general population. It is not true that there are
no atheists in foxholes.

True, but they are less than proportionally represented, being more
intelligent and free-thinking, thus not being preferred as cannon-fodder.

It's true that they are less inclined to kill for Jesus.

I don't think there are many combatants who are. Quite a few eager to
kill for other deities, though.

Most of the time, they want to go home, alive and with everything
they had when they arrived. If they have to kill to survive, they do.
Its one thing to practice on the rifle range with pop up targets, but
its completely different to have to fire at another human, or die.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Michael A. Terrell
Most of the time, they want to go home, alive and with everything
they had when they arrived. If they have to kill to survive, they do.
Its one thing to practice on the rifle range with pop up targets, but
its completely different to have to fire at another human, or die.

Agreed, but it doesn't apply to suicide bombers and other terrorists.
They don't operate under battlefield conditions.

[Eeyore]

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Michael A. Terrell
Most of the time, they want to go home, alive and with everything
they had when they arrived. If they have to kill to survive, they do.
Its one thing to practice on the rifle range with pop up targets, but
its completely different to have to fire at another human, or die.

Agreed, but it doesn't apply to suicide bombers and other terrorists.
They don't operate under battlefield conditions.

The suicide bomber also won't see their victims die.

Graham

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:24:26 GMT, Joerg

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson

Post by John Woodgate
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

I figured someone would respond like that...
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Except that it's not that religion is oppressive but that it is people
in leadership positions who mis-interpret and become false teachers. Or
even dangerous teachers. So there are some bad people, but only very few.

Post by Jim Thompson
I have an Iranian friend, Salar, who tells people his name is Sal ;-)

Hmm. Majeed still calls himself Majeed and doesn't run into problems
with that AFAIK. Unless someone really wants to I only see one reason
why to alter the name a bit: If it's unpronouncable in the country you
live in, like with my name (I am mostly called George).

So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

...Jim Thompson

[Joerg]

Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.

If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

[John Woodgate]

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way
he pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often,
like in the last part of their word for calculator which is
"ordinateur".

You may find 'Yurg' near enough. Most differences in languages and
accents are subtle variations of vowel sounds. There are thousands of
different ones, only some hundreds of which have official phonetic
symbols.

[Joerg]

Hello John,

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All
in the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The
way he pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often,
like in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

You may find 'Yurg' near enough. Most differences in languages and
accents are subtle variations of vowel sounds. There are thousands of
different ones, only some hundreds of which have official phonetic symbols.

Yes, that's true. It's just more difficult to make a certain sound if
you didn't have some training in it or trained yourself. Dutch was quite
tough in that respect, took me a couple years to get it (almost) right.
The main reason why I tell people at clients to call me George is that
when someone has me paged "Joerg" often sounds like "Stuart" and then
there is a Stuart and he answers the page.

[David Brown]

Post by Joerg
Hello John,

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All
in the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The
way he pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often,
like in the last part of their word for calculator which is
"ordinateur".

You may find 'Yurg' near enough. Most differences in languages and
accents are subtle variations of vowel sounds. There are thousands of
different ones, only some hundreds of which have official phonetic symbols.

Yes, that's true. It's just more difficult to make a certain sound if
you didn't have some training in it or trained yourself. Dutch was quite
tough in that respect, took me a couple years to get it (almost) right.
The main reason why I tell people at clients to call me George is that
when someone has me paged "Joerg" often sounds like "Stuart" and then
there is a Stuart and he answers the page.

One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

[John Woodgate]

If you haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are
always going to have difficulty with it.

I think there might be QUITE a problem in pronouncing that, under any
circumstances!

Jörg, not Jðrg.

[David Brown]

Post by John Woodgate

If you haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you
are always going to have difficulty with it.

I think there might be QUITE a problem in pronouncing that, under any
circumstances!
Jörg, not Jðrg.

I think that must have been a confusion between character sets - I knew
it was risking trying to use the right letter. On my email
client/OS/keyboard/font combination, the letter I wrote was an "o" with
two dots above it, while it looks like you saw it as an Icelandic "d
with a cross".

[Eeyore]

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

Graham

[Rich Grise]

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think I'd ever be able to learn that African clicking sound.

Thanks,
Rich

[Eeyore]

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think I'd ever be able to learn that African clicking sound.

Heck ! Birds can learn to speak !

Graham

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by Eeyore
Heck ! Birds can learn to speak !

Only birds who are smarter than stuffed donkeys.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Rich Grise
I don't think I'd ever be able to learn that African clicking sound.

There are five basic clicks and dozens of exotic phonemes including
them. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_consonant

I can produce some of them, but others are far too difficult. Loose
dentures might help with some!

[John Fields]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:42:27 +0100, Eeyore

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

---
Perhaps because you heard it as a baby but you don't remember?
---

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

---
No, the real problem is ppl who are so entranced with their own
cuteness that they feel the need to manipulate the language in order
to bring attention to themselves.

[Chuck Harris]

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.
Graham

Yeah, that's right, go on and blame the people... when you could be blaming
George Bush.

-Chuck

[Eeyore]

Post by Chuck Harris

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.
Graham

Yeah, that's right, go on and blame the people... when you could be blaming
George Bush.

What's the point ? Everyone knows he's guilty as hell !

Graham

[Joerg]

Hello Graham,

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

That means you have talent there.

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

[Eeyore]

Post by Joerg
Hello Graham,

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

That means you have talent there.

Thank you kindly. I can roll a French 'r' too.

Post by Joerg

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

Interesting subject. As a 'kid' I was asked if I wanted to sing in the choir but it
had the wrong kind of image for my liking ( watch your back there boy ). My voice is
useless in that respect now though.

OTOH, I never had music lessons but I can 'do stuff' without even thinking much
about it on a keyboard. Or certainly used to be able to. Some coincidence maybe that
my Dad played piano in a jazz band as a student ?

Graham

[Rich Grise]

Post by Joerg
Hello Graham,

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

That means you have talent there.

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

I find it hard to believe that there's anyone who really, truly,
"can't" sing. Especially someone who's good at picking up languages.

Can you distinguish one song from another when you hear it?

Thanks,
Rich

[Joerg]

Hello Rich,

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

I find it hard to believe that there's anyone who really, truly,
"can't" sing. Especially someone who's good at picking up languages.

T'is true. While marching at boot camp the drill sergeant stopped
everyone. And I mean, the whole battalion. Singled out two guys. One was
yours truly. "YOU! From now on you will not sing. It makes even the milk
in the fridge turn sour. Understand?" "YES, SAAAAAHH!"

Post by Rich Grise
Can you distinguish one song from another when you hear it?

I can but I can't hold a tune in a bucket.

[John Woodgate]

Post by Rich Grise
Can you distinguish one song from another when you hear it?

There was an old lady of Breen
Whose musical ear was not keen
She said, 'It is odd
But I cannot tell 'God
Save the weasel' from 'Pop goes the Queen'.'

[Eeyore]

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg
Hello Graham,

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

That means you have talent there.

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

I find it hard to believe that there's anyone who really, truly,
"can't" sing. Especially someone who's good at picking up languages.

My voice just 'cracks' now if I try.

I get sore from talking loud ( as in over loud background noise ) now too.

Graham

[John Fields]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:02:09 +0100, Eeyore

Post by Eeyore

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg
Hello Graham,

Post by Eeyore

Post by David Brown
One of the biggest difficulties in learning new letters or sounds is not
learning to pronounce them, but learning to hear them properly. If you
haven't heard the õ sound in Jõrg while you were a baby, you are always
going to have difficulty with it.

I disagree. I never heard it as a baby afaik but i have no trouble at all with
it.

That means you have talent there.

Post by Eeyore
The real problem is ppl who are lazy about learning languages.

I don't think so, knowing folks who had expensive Berlitz classes and
tried really hard but never quite got it. We are all different. For
example, I can learn languages quite easily but I have never been able
to sing or play any instrument. And I did try hard.

I find it hard to believe that there's anyone who really, truly,
"can't" sing. Especially someone who's good at picking up languages.

My voice just 'cracks' now if I try.
I get sore from talking loud ( as in over loud background noise ) now too.

---
While, here, you contribute to it.

[ehsjr]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

I thought the "oe" in your name was pronounced like this:
Joutstandingengineerrg. :-)

Ed

[Joerg]

Hello Ed,

Post by ehsjr

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All
in the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The
way he pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often,
like in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

Joutstandingengineerrg. :-)

Thanks for the kudos. Although I guess my wife won't think so after our
X-10 system begins to fall apart. Not my fault but I was the guy who
installed it :-(

[Rich Grise]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

I read a thing in the pronunciation guide of a dictionary once, many
years ago, and I remember the way they described the umlauted o. The
trick was to put your lips in the form to make the 'o' sound, but form
your tongue as if you were about to make the 'a' sound. Similarly, with
an umlauted u, which I think is like ue or something, you purse your
lips to make an 'oo', but put your tongue in position for 'ee'.

Works for me! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

[Joerg]

Hello Rich,

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

I read a thing in the pronunciation guide of a dictionary once, many
years ago, and I remember the way they described the umlauted o. The
trick was to put your lips in the form to make the 'o' sound, but form
your tongue as if you were about to make the 'a' sound. Similarly, with
an umlauted u, which I think is like ue or something, you purse your
lips to make an 'oo', but put your tongue in position for 'ee'.

We are currently having visitors and banging back and forth between
languages. So for fun we taught a friend of ours the word for spoon
which is Loeffel. It was fun: Started out as Flouffel, became Fouffel,
then Loufel and finally Loeffel.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:09:30 GMT, Joerg

Post by Joerg
Hello Rich,

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

I read a thing in the pronunciation guide of a dictionary once, many
years ago, and I remember the way they described the umlauted o. The
trick was to put your lips in the form to make the 'o' sound, but form
your tongue as if you were about to make the 'a' sound. Similarly, with
an umlauted u, which I think is like ue or something, you purse your
lips to make an 'oo', but put your tongue in position for 'ee'.

We are currently having visitors and banging back and forth between
languages. So for fun we taught a friend of ours the word for spoon
which is Loeffel. It was fun: Started out as Flouffel, became Fouffel,
then Loufel and finally Loeffel.

So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

...Jim Thompson

[John Woodgate]

In message <***@4ax.com>, dated Wed, 13
Sep 2006, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-***@My-Web-Site.com>
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

One cannot tell. How do you pronounce the 'oo' in 'spoon'? (;-)

I suspect that if you put a 'y' in front of 'erg' (tiny CGS unit of
energy), you will get a close approximation.

[Joerg]

Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as "ordinateur".
It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't customary here.

[Chuck Harris]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as "ordinateur".
It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't customary here.

Look at what Jim said, in the context of your story, and see if it might
have been a joke...

-Chuck Harris

[Joerg]

Hello Chuck,

Post by Chuck Harris

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as
"ordinateur". It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't
customary here.

Look at what Jim said, in the context of your story, and see if it might
have been a joke...

Uhm, guess you are right :-)

Doing a project on one PC and NG on another. Doesn't always work...

[Rich Grise]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as "ordinateur".
It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't customary here.

Poor plonk-happy Jim has cut himself off from my excellent description
a couple of posts up-thread.

Oh, well. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

[jasen]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as "ordinateur".
It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't customary here.

The is ABSE, maybe you can dig out a microphone and post a .wav file or
something.

on seconds thoughts then there'll be a bunch of immitators posting back,
maybe a more compact format like ogg or mp3 would be better.

Bye.
Jasen

[Eeyore]

Post by Joerg
Hello Jim,

Post by Jim Thompson
So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??

No, it's pronounced like the "eu" in French words such as "ordinateur".
It needs a forming of the mouth and lips that isn't customary here.

Make a small round shape with the lips and make the sound in the throat like
when the Docor ask you sah 'ahh' but say 'errr' instead.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Post by Jim Thompson
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:09:30 GMT, Joerg

Post by Joerg
Hello Rich,

Post by Rich Grise

Post by Joerg

Post by Jim Thompson
So what is the correct pronunciation of "Joerg" ???

The "oe" is really an umlaut "o", a sound that in America only New
Yorkers can really make. But they are very good at it. Remember "All in
the Family" when Archie Bunker said "... so my point is ..."? The way he
pronounced the "o' in "point" is the way it's pronounced.
If you have been in France or Quebec this sound can be heard often, like
in the last part of their word for calculator which is "ordinateur".

I read a thing in the pronunciation guide of a dictionary once, many
years ago, and I remember the way they described the umlauted o. The
trick was to put your lips in the form to make the 'o' sound, but form
your tongue as if you were about to make the 'a' sound. Similarly, with
an umlauted u, which I think is like ue or something, you purse your
lips to make an 'oo', but put your tongue in position for 'ee'.

We are currently having visitors and banging back and forth between
languages. So for fun we taught a friend of ours the word for spoon
which is Loeffel. It was fun: Started out as Flouffel, became Fouffel,
then Loufel and finally Loeffel.

So is "oe"/"ö" pronounced like "oo" in "spoon" ??
...Jim Thompson

No.

It's pronounced 'errr'.

Graham

[John Woodgate]

In message <***@4ax.com>, dated Sun, 10
Sep 2006, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-***@My-Web-Site.com>
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
I figured someone would respond like that...

I thought it might be better if I did it.(;-)

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

[Homer J Simpson]

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

Yes, all of those liberal weenies who want the government to get out of
their bedrooms - and their lives.

[Eeyore]

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

Yes, all of those liberal weenies who want the government to get out of
their bedrooms - and their lives.

It quite scary to recall how recently the state seriusly intruded into sexual
behaviuor.

Gaham

[John Fields]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:18:32 +0100, Eeyore

Post by Eeyore

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

Yes, all of those liberal weenies who want the government to get out of
their bedrooms - and their lives.

It quite scary to recall how recently the state seriusly intruded into sexual
behaviuor.

---
It still does. Take a look at fundamentalist Islam where there _is_
no separation between church and state, and it's still a nightmare.
---

Post by Eeyore
Gaham

---
Gaham? How do you pronounce that? ;)

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by John Fields
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:18:32 +0100, Eeyore

Post by Eeyore

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

Yes, all of those liberal weenies who want the government to get out of
their bedrooms - and their lives.

It quite scary to recall how recently the state seriusly intruded into sexual
behaviuor.

---
It still does. Take a look at fundamentalist Islam where there _is_
no separation between church and state, and it's still a nightmare.
---

Post by Eeyore
Gaham

---
Gaham? How do you pronounce that? ;)

Why would you want to?

[b***@ieee.org]

Post by Homer J Simpson

Post by John Woodgate

Post by Jim Thompson
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS

Watch out; your liberal weenie side is showing.

Yes, all of those liberal weenies who want the government to get out of
their bedrooms - and their lives.

Yep. No more interfering in the educational process either. If you want
to keep your kids at home to do the farm chores and to learn about
intelligent design during a regular ten minute tuition session every
evening (except Sunday), that's your business.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[b***@ieee.org]

Post by Jim Thompson
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:51:56 +0100, John Woodgate

Post by John Woodgate
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

I figured someone would respond like that...
There are no bad PEOPLES, only oppressive GOVERNMENTS and RELIGIONS
I have an Iranian friend, Salar, who tells people his name is Sal ;-)

Good grief. He'll be admitting that individual French people can be
okay any time now.

I'm just back from a couple of pleasant days in Chablis, with a couple
of cases of aide memoires. Premier Cru, from old vines.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:51:56 +0100, the renowned John Woodgate

Post by John Woodgate
writes

Post by Jim Thompson
Owner is from Morocco and is an engineer at Microchip ;-)

Morocco - that's part of Arabia, isn't it? (;-)

I think he could legitimately call himself an African-American.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany